Canonical Post for Perfect Constructions

Question

I've started to wonder recently if we could put together a canonical post that thoroughly explains perfect constructions; how they work, when to use them, etc. There are of course exceptions to everything, so the post would not answer all questions related to perfect constructions, but I think it could be useful. I've noticed a trend that questions about perfect constructions seem to come repeatedly from the same users. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself—the questions are fair and the users free to ask them—but it makes me think that we aren't getting the point across to them, and since this is such a commonly asked about topic, perhaps we should cover it in-depth in one easily-accessible resource.

So, thoughts? Is this doable? Is there too much to say to fit into a single post, or do we think we could do this? If we can, do we have any volunteers to write the answer? We would also need to agree upon the best way to phrase the question (I would then post it as a CW question on the main site, so that when questions that are entirely answered by the post are asked, they can be closed as duplicates). A starting point for the question text, if we decide to proceed with this:

[This is a canonical post on the usage of Perfect Constructions. It is Community Wiki and can be updated with further information and clarification at any time.]

What are Perfect Constructions?

When can I use them?

When should I not use them?

Important notes about this proposal:

1. This does not mean we would immediately begin closing all questions about perfect constructions as a duplicate of this question. But this could be a good resource to point learners to; if they read this the first time they ask a question about perfect constructions, maybe it will answer all their questions and they won't need to ask more. If the question is extremely basic and clearly answered by this canonical answer, the community could decide to close it. Or if the OP, once shown a link to this question, decides their question has been answered, we could also close it then.

2. The above question proposal is just a very rough outline. Please suggest improvements.

3. If we agree to go forward with this, we really need a qualified writer to help us write the canonical answer; agreement with this proposal is useless if we don't have someone to do that! So please, if you're interested, volunteer to write something up for us. The post will be CW so others can of course edit and contribute later, but we really would need someone to write the bulk of the original post.

Okay, so, thoughts? Everyone please let me know what you think! :)

UPDATE

I've created a chat room specifically to discuss this Canonical Post moving forward. Anyone is welcome to come chat about ideas they have for this post. You can find the chat room here!

Answer 1

As a matter of fact, precisely this subject (a Very Large subject) has been occupying a good deal of my time over the past week. You may in fact have noticed that whole slew of old questions have recently shown up on the Active QQ page, because I've been going through methodically dredging up all the questions which dealt with perfect constructions (and, separately, a modal and semi-modal verbs and b other gnarly matters involving the TAM trinity [tense/aspect/modality]), and have been retagging as I go.

My thought was to raise the matter in terms very like what you have posted here and to invite suggestions about how it might best be accomplished: whether as a CW Question, or as a Meta Question or possibly as one or more tag-wiki posts.

I had two related concerns:

1. The first is one you raise: How will this Canonical Post interact with new questions? It will relieve us of the necessity of retelling the same long, complicated story every time a question respecting perfect constructions comes up; but we need to be careful that we do not make that an excuse for rushing to close every question that arises. I fear that those of us who have been active on ELU have imported from our Old World some attitudes that are not always appropriate in the New. Specifically, we tend to think that an Answer is an Answer is an Answer, and overlook the irreducible uniqueness of every question that is asked.

   So I feel that what the Canonical Post should do is provide the essential formal categories and rules which are part of the background to every question. This will leave us free to post brief answers directly responsive to the specifics of OPs' questions, and refer them for terminological explanation and theoretical detail to the CP.

2. The second is the matter of review. This is something that has bothered me since we first started getting new visitors from outside the Inner Circle of Original Followers. I am very grateful for the many up- and down-votes and positive and negative comments I get from the ICOF, and they assure me that (eventually) I get the answer right; but what I really want is more feedback from the anonymous horde of users we're struggling towards accumulating. I want to know that I'm not just right but intelligibly right. So I'd like to see some sort of mechanism for promoting and soliciting commentary from the Learners. But I have no clear idea what that mechanism might be, beyond possibly a signature phrase in the Title: FOR LEARNERS: Help Us Get It Right, or something of the sort.

So I'm on board already, and I'm eager to participate in whatever manner the Community judges most appropriate.

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P.S. With respect to "questions about perfect tenses seem to come repeatedly from the same users" - I can report with some authority that what we get is six or eight questions from one new user, digging deeper and deeper into the subject as their understanding grows; and then ten days later six or eight questions from another new user, digging deeper &c; and then ten days after that six or eight questions from yet another new user ... It would be funny, except that I can't keep track of my answers and keep assuming I've already informed User C of Important Fact VII when in fact I haven't mentioned that since User A.

P.P.S. The single most important thing to be included is FumbleFingers' Perfect Truism.

Answer 2

My advice (don't use Past Perfect unless you really have to) has already been linked to here, and I've posted links to it myself in various answers and comments on ELL.main.

I think that a single canonical question (and single canonical answer?) covering all aspects of Perfect Constructions might be a bit ambitious (it could get confusingly long, too). Bearing in mind my dictum above, I suggest one really useful page that we could realistically provide would answer the question...

When do I have to use Past Perfect? (specifically not: when can I use it?)

Perhaps someone will be prompted to cut & paste the above line into a question on main. I certainly wouldn't downvote as Too Broad, nor would I object if they simply pasted/posted the same words as both the title and the question text. If nobody does, but this question gets at least 10 upvotes, I'll do it myself.