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It's been decided to create another chatroom for ELL.

A place for advanced learners, non-native speakers (along with native speakers and teachers who want to help these people) who are on their own quest of mastering their English.


What does that mean?

We want to help users who want tips (or discussion) on how to improve their learning skills. This room will be devoted on focusing about the process of learning, rather than usage.

Basically, any questions a learner has which seek discussion are off-topic on ELL - And they should remain as such. We can guide them to that chatroom where (hopefully) productive discussion and/or guidance will be pulled off.


Is anyone going to be there? Can I trust them?

Yes, and yes. At least one of the regulars in the ELL's chat will be there. About the regulars of the ELL's chat, Three of the regulars are native speakers. One is a teacher, and the second is a linguist. The third is StoneyB, and I think that should suffice. Other regulars are advanced self-reliant learners in English with almost no errors in fluent speaking chatting. Heck, I have the most rudimentary level of knowledge!


What should I ask there?

If someone goes there and says Please correct my sentence, I think I will point them to the main room.
But if someone comes here and says I want to improve my English, I think I will point them to the new room. - Damkerng


Um, will this be better than having the discussions in one room?

The ELL's main chat is about talking about "English, linguistics, or anything you want!" Sometimes, it gets just too busy in there. And, some discussions require concentration to be productive. In ELL's chat's rush hour (i.e. when more than 3 users are talking and some people just kick in the conversation) getting to concentrate is very hard, if not impossible. The main owner's (Dam) two cents on this are:

I don't know if it will really be better. Only time will tell. However, I think it's often enough that people come here to get a short-term answer. (Basically, how can I write this? Is this correct? Please correct me. Please help me, what is the word or phrase for such and such.) But we've also seen that some users on ELL are trying to strive on their own toward more longer goals. (Basically, how can I improve my skill? What should I read? What should I listen to?) - Damkerng


And now, what are your two cents on this?

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I like the idea, but there are a few points and thoughts that I'd live to mention:

  1. "Sometimes, it gets just too busy in there." Although I agree that in some rooms, such as the Python room on SO (whose visitors regularly succeed in making it the busiest room on the network), might be better off with two rooms, I don't think that the current amount of traffic that flows in and out of the room constitutes two rooms. Prehaps this will thin out the visitors further during troughs in visitor numbers, which is a bad thing in my opinion.
  2. Something I do like is the idea of two purposes for two rooms, this is a great idea. I like the element of organisation that the two room situation would bring. On the other, more cynical of the hands I possess, this would only work if A) the two rooms have clearly defined purposes: "this one's for learning and that one's for those of us who just want a cozy chat and a biscuit."; and B) There's enough people to warrant such a divide in the purpose of the rooms, and that they'll continue to hang about.
  3. I hate to be "that guy", and point out what I've already said (this could be changed by the time that this is posted, but I'd like to elaborate on this), when I say that the rooms should be clearly labelled, and have a clear purpose. The current names of English Language Learners and English for Learners and Non-Native Speakers is vague at best, and will confuse users as they try to choose which room to join. Prehaps the original room should be renamed something like English Speakers instead(?).

Pre-posting edit:

@Damkerng has made the most potent points in his quote from the post.

I agree, and I think that we should definitely be trying to promote both rooms for the right purpose to the right user, although we might find that there's a fine line between the two rooms' purposes.

  • OwwK, so 1 is what that Dam calls as a time-will-tell issue. About 2, already almost all of the regs have participated in the new room and that's over, and about 3, the necessary actions have been pulled out. Thanks everyone for reading...Case closed. – M.A.R. Apr 21 '15 at 17:10
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This answer is based on actual experience. Today I went into an ELL Chat Room. I had no idea which one of the two I was entering; I just went where there were some people.

However, I had no idea which of the two chat rooms I was in. And I think this is because

the descriptions of the two ELL Chat Rooms do not differentiate them from each other

English Language Learners in short: ELL

A room to talk about English, linguistics, or anything you want!

and

The English Learning Cabin

A place for learners and non-native speakers of English (along with native speakers and teachers who want to help these people) who are on their own quest of mastering their English.

Now, it turns out I was in the second chat room. I think this was my first visit to the "Cabin." However, when I got there, I thought I was in the regular, normal, older, established chat room (ELL)...and I could see nothing there to tell me that I was there (and not in ELL). I even quoted part of the room's description in a comment. But it was still unknown to me that I was not in the ELL.

In fact, as I pop into the "The English Learning Cabin" just now, I see the this post:

This Post posted in "The Cabin". I understand (I guess) that there can be some overlap between two rooms. But I go back to my original point of this post:

By their descriptions the two rooms cannot be distinguished from one another. And if a NES cannot distinguish between them, can a Learner expected to be able to?


Second, the phrase from ELL: or anything you want!... is this in accord with Stack Exchange Policy? I am asking because I read somewhere that SE chat rooms had to be on topic.

  • TA-DA! I knew someone was gonna come in and question the descriptions, mainly because I and @Damkerng were dubious about the description. We might change it, so you might come to the chat and join us so that we can come up worth something actually understandable. :P About your second point, I'd say a big meh. SE said chat's are better if they remain on topic, but everywhere chats can slip away from following the rules most of the times. Is it not that an ELL can improve their English by chatting something, even if it's off topic? – M.A.R. Jun 1 '15 at 8:43

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